Talk:Umbran Elder/@comment-76.27.211.65-20140909234335/@comment-1661895-20141212194423

Settling this before it drags on any more.

BOTH of the clans are gone from the world. The Lumen were wiped out first during the Clan Wars because the Umbra were better combat-wise. The Umbra then fell because of the Witch Hunts afterwards.

Both clans had survivors, yes. But Balder is the only Sage in both games who has ever appeared in person. And it's common knowledge that Bayonetta and Jeanne are the only two surviving Witches.

Whilst it's likely to assume there was a Lumen Elder given the clan's opposites with one another and from Bloody Fate, nothing in the games suggests one survived at all and to assume so on no evidence is incorrect. There hasn't been a Lumen Elder because the Lumen are not the focus of either game. Case closed.